In this episode of Never Go Against the Family, host Dan Beenken, interviews Jerry Foster, co-founder and CEO of the Foster Group. The focus of the discussion was on conscious life planning and succession planning for businesses. Jerry highlighted the importance of deliberate planning for post-retirement life transitions. His personal encounter with a severe form of cancer prompted him to pay more attention to succession planning in his firm. 

Transcription

Dan: Hey, everyone. This is Dan Beenken with the UNI Family Business Center here at the University of Northern Iowa. Our guest today is Jerry Foster. He is the founder and former CEO of the Foster Group in Des Moines Iowa. Jerry has done a lot of work in life planning. Certainly thinking about what to do next with life and the succession planning path from working, owning, and managing your company. Now, what am I gonna do next and making sure that that's intentional. So that's gonna be our topic for today with Jerry. I'm really excited to have you with us. So thank you for joining us and it's exciting, but maybe a little scary too when you've worked your whole life. I've got my little chart that I drew up when you had presented to our Legacy Group and I just thought it was really cool how you've outlined that foundational time of our lives from our mid twenties, and a  big chunk of our life, up to 60. Like you said, our identity, who we are, what we are, and what we're taking from the world too.Then that 60 plus or wherever, you wanna put the number, but that third phase really spoke to me. So I'm looking at the chart right now as we talk and I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about how you advise clients or have advised business clients in the past. Sometimes I call it the monkey bars of life, where you're not gonna let go of the monkey bar, until you know that you've got a decently firm grip on the next one. I feel like the business succession age transition is somewhat like that for folks. If you're owning that company, your identity is tied to that company. All of who you really are is about leading the company and then you move into this phase where all of a sudden, you're not that person anymore. How do you fill that void? Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Jerry: Yeah. Well, I think that one of the big things that happens is we transition. Like you said, we're kind of moving away from that season of our life when we've been establishing that credibility. Arthur Brooks, wrote a book called, From Strength to Strength, an outstanding book where he talks about the two curves that we find in ourselves, work curves and curves of influence. That kind of fits right into that chart that you just drew out that I do with seasons. You put those two curves over the top of that and you really begin to have an understanding of what goes on as we transition. But there is a period of grief as we move from that first curve, as Arthur Brooks talks or the second season as I talk about it, because we've spent so much time building a resume. I mean, we're working on resume type of things, just to establish ourselves in the community and it's fluid, it's always moving. Like you said, a lot of our self worth and our value and how we see ourselves is tied up in what we do. When we leave that behind, the constant schedule of being with the same people and doing the same things and now that's not there, it's really scary. So one of the things that I talk about is just the grief. How do you grieve in a healthy way? One of the ways you do this is by first identifying it and understanding that this is normal. I started transitioning from my business a few years ago and I think I still go through grief every day.

Dan: Yeah, I was just gonna ask you if you could talk from a firsthand perspective too. I know that you actually have had to talk the talk and walk the walk, of your own grieving process. Especially with your name on the door and everybody in the building kind of knowing that this is the leader of our ship, and how that identifies you and brings credibility to you. Then when you move away from that, how do you feel? How do you not become an annoyance to your wife or your husband? Can you talk a little bit about that? 

Jerry: Well, it's that transition, really the intentionality of not retiring or transitioning from something but retiring or transitioning to something. And that's one of the biggest mistakes that people in this transition phase don't think about. The other thing about it is how to wind down or shut down and move on to the next season. They've not thought about what I'm going to? And that's a huge part of it. For me, I grieve every day, I grieve things that were but I have something I look forward to and I'm moving towards new things. In fact, I find myself thinking how in the world did I ever find time to work?

Dan: Right. So just getting yourself out there, evaluating your skills, expertise, experiences and interests is part of that. But also acknowledging that there is gonna be some messiness along the way. I did write down what you said that you have to have something to retire to, not something to retire from and thinking about it that way. I'm assuming that helps you put some context around the fact that you are going into a new phase. One thing that I think about is, I'm just gonna go fishing every day and I can't wait for that time of my life. I think I say that with not enough thought and then I'm like, what does that really look like if I'm not catching anything or it's raining or all of a sudden, I just get bored of it? Holy crap, I'm gonna find myself in a grieving situation. So I think it’s incredibly important for people to plan for this phase and to know that it's not gonna be just as simple as going to coffee every day and watching Wheel of Fortune and call it good. So, what are some of the things that you're doing, in this third phase for yourself that you're finding rewarding? And how did you lead yourself to those spots?

Jerry: Well, some of that points back to what I think is one of the key objectives that I have just looking at life. That is when we're walking through those three seasons, I've concluded that we have the opportunity to make a choice of one of three pathways that we can choose to live predominantly in our life. If you were to look at this pathway, there's this arrow that runs all the way down the pathway from birth to the future. The path that goes right down the middle is what I call the path of indifference, it’s a default path. It's where most people find themselves living primarily because they've not done what we're talking about here. They've not created a purpose and passion for their life and they're not really working towards anything specific. They kind of aimlessly go into retirement with no goals. Not that we have to take the same kind of intensity from that second season and third season. But without some purpose or focus, then we're aimless. And that's where the path of indifference comes in and that's driven by complacency. Complacency sets in and we just think, I've been there, done that and I'm just not gonna get engaged anymore. I think that's where it leads to a lot of depression because we spent so much time in our second season on a mission, with a purpose and now we don't. So that's a big issue.The second path I talked about is a path of indulgence. That's the one that goes down and is really driven by comparison. When I say indulgence, I'm not talking about enjoyment, because I think we work hard our whole life. We're supposed to enjoy that in our season of life. But if we were driven by comparison, which is the issue on that pathway to indulgence, it's never enough. Whatever we have, our natural tendency is to compare ourselves to somebody who has more or who's better at something or has better circumstances. We're always comparing and needing more, and we can never satisfy that insatiable desire. One of the participants in the workshop we did the other day came up to me and said that she heard that that comparison is the thief of joy. That's really a powerful statement. The third path I talked about is the path of influence. I really believe that's where most people want to live their life. That's why we worked all those years, we wanted to have impact, we wanted to influence and we don't want that to stop. The path of influences is really fed by our ability to be content. Now with content and complacency, there's a tricky line between those two. I'm not talking about just saying I'm right, I'm done, and I'm just gonna just coast. Not saying I'm content with my circumstances, I'm content with who I am, content with the opportunities that are in front of me. But rather, I'm gonna be all I can be with what I have in the circumstances that I'm living. When we can get our head and our heart around that contentment issue, I really think we're in a place now where we can really establish some meaningful objectives and goals during that season.

Dan: Yeah. So for yourself and for the folks that you advise, how do you take the first steps into making sure that they pursue that life of contentment along the track of influence in that third phase. What are, so what are some practical kinds of ways to help keep me off the comparison track or complacency track. Do you have any thoughts on that that you would want our viewers to hear?

Jerry: Oh you know, one of the big issues there is just the whole intentionality. This first is to walk into that season and say, okay, I'm gonna be intentional, I'm not gonna let life happen to me, I'm going to be more intentional to make things happen. Once again, we can't control all circumstances, but we can control something. So intentionality. We've got a simple questionnaire that we can just say, when you think beyond the last 30-40 years of working and back to when you were a kid, what are the things that you just enjoyed most? What do you remember just saying, wow I really love that! What energizes you? There are all kinds of people around us, especially when they hear that you are retiring, that think you have all kinds of time. They're asking you to do things that can literally suck the life out of you. John Stanley, a friend of mine, said that this season of life is when we have the freedom and flexibility to do what we want, when we want, with who we want.

Dan: So that's kind of that power to say no.

Jerry: Exactly. Say no to the wrong things so that you can say yes to the right things. So that means it really takes some time to say, what do I really want to do? Find something that you thought you'd always love doing, but just never had the time to do it and find a way to do it. For me, I stumbled into painting, I started going to a class with this retired middle school art teacher. I go with about four or five other people, and we're all in our sixties. We go and sit in her basement, where she has a studio, and we drink wine and paint every Tuesday night for two hours. It's opened up for me a whole new area of interest. So it's just finding something you've ever done before. 

Dan: Yeah. A lot of this comes around the world that you just said which is intentionality. I think it's far too easy frankly to not be intentional and to just let life happen. One thing that I've really picked up from your speaking and your books, is that intentionality part. Not that I want this to become a how to live your best self podcast or anything, but for the business owners and family businesses that are with us, I want them to think about intentionality. Especially how it plays itself into their succession planning too then. Can you talk a little bit about your own succession plan? How did that go for you as far as building a company over many years, putting your name on the sign and then,facing that season. How, how did that go?

Jerry: I got a, I got a little bit of a jump start on it when I was 55, about 13 years ago. I was diagnosed with a really rare form of cancer, melanoma in the eye. It has a direct pathway, 90% of the time when it metastasizes, it goes directly to the liver and it's deadly. When I was suddenly diagnosed with it, there was a 50% mortality rate in the first five years. When you're running a business, that forces you into this mindset of, what am I gonna do? What are we gonna do in this business if I'm not around? We instinctively know that could happen to any of us because we all know we're gonna die. I can guarantee one thing, 100% of the people listening to this are going to die. But when you're faced with that reality, it really kicks you into a more intentional process. So I really started the process 13 years ago and it was a slow process,, but I knew the end game. The end game is that the company had to function without me. So I really considered it a huge blessing to be diagnosed with cancer because it did a couple things for me. It gave me a picture where I needed to be and a jump start with my business. But it also gave me a picture and jump started me with what I wanted my personal life to look like. suddenly. I heard someone say that when death is certain, life becomes real. I was looking at the certain death, like we all do, but we don't really think about it that way until we're facing a diagnosis. So I started that transition and then through the process, we actively began to look at who the next leader of the company would be. We had a consultant come in and work with us and we considered going outside, as well as candidates inside and that process brought us to the right person about five or six years ago. In that process, I had then had the opportunity to mentor and coach and phase out. But the key is, the day we announced him as the CEO of the company, as a show of confidence, I literally handed him the keys and said it's yours. Now I'd warmed up to get him the confidence to do that. One thing that did help is, probably back in early and mid nineties, I went to a business coach. This business coach taught me a ton of things, but one of the things I learned is that I gotta get rid of my office. His philosophy on that was, if you're the kind of person that needs to be leading the company by being out and doing things, your office becomes a trap for everybody to put the things that they can't figure out on your desk. If you don't have an office, they don't have any place to put it and they gotta find you. So when I would come into the building, I would go up to our receptionist and ask who's out today. That is who I would become that day, I went and sat in their office and worked there or worked in a conference room or worked in Starbucks or whatever it is. So I built the business with that kind of culture. So when I handed the keys over to our new CEO, I said, I'm not gonna be here. I would come in and meet occasionally with him, but this company had to have his personality and he needed to lead. Iit was remarkable how easy that was to happen. I bet at least half of the company, if not more, have been hired since that happened. I've always said that you want to leave at a time when they want you to stay and they still invite you back because they need your advice and hey still want your wisdom from all the experiences. You don't want to be that guy in the corner office where they say, when's he gonna leave? 

Dan: That's a great point, is thinking about how do we leave with them wanting more?  

Jerry: And that's something we can control. It's a fun place because now I really feel like I'm still contributing even though I'm hardly ever there.

Dan: They're also not concerned that you're showing up either. or something like that. Yeah, I think that that's all too often. When they stick around too long then that, like these curves that you mentioned from book, there's a curve up but there's a curve down too and if you aren't careful exiting on that curve down, it's gonna really be detrimental. Right?

Jerry: Arthur Brooks said success often means knowing when to walk away, not hanging on to the first curve too long.  And I really like that because our tendency, especially if it's our company we built, there's a sense of I need to hang on to it as long as I can. Our success is knowing when to walk away. 

Dan: Yeah, I think that's a great point that we can close on today, Jerry. You covered a lot of ground, but I'd love to have you back for part two of this conversation because it is so important and impactful for our families. Once again, our guest has been Jerry Foster, founder of the Foster Group in Des Moines, a wealth management firm. Jerry has a lot of experience, obviously firsthand experience, of running, growing, operating and exiting his own company. While now doing a lot of work with other families on navigating through life and planning for as he calls it the third phase of life. So Jerry, thank you so much for being with us. Hope you have a great rest of your day.

Jerry: Thanks.

Katie: Thanks for listening to this episode of Never Go Against The Family, a podcast produced by the University of Northern Iowa Family Business Center. You can find more information about the center membership and upcoming events at https://unifamilybusinesscenter.com. As Vito Corleone advises, never go against the family.